Animation Bug Revealed by splitting frames

[scri8e]

ImageMagick Animation Bug revealed by splitting frames

When I split the frames of this image at Arbor's ImageMagick only the first frame is of the whole image of the cow. The rest of the images are of the head only.

I think that ImageMagick only picks up the pixels that change in frames after the first frame? This causes many problems with most animations. If you do any image manipulations at all inside of ImageMagick. The cows head only frames will jump all over the place because they are much smaller in width and height than the base image. They also slightly vary in size.

Exact steps taken at Arbor ImageMagick.

I enter the studio by pasting the URL

http://www.scri8e.com/IM_Tutor/my_IM_tu ... /17999.gif

I go directly to output.

I mark the radio dial button for single under storage type.

I output.

I also get the exact same results using Net4TV ImageMagick. Which is a older version of the Magic Studio.

This is a old problem with animation many years of versions back. Perhaps from the beginning? Might have started with the compression challenges with the gif format.

Here are the GifWorks split frames results:

http://www.scri8e.com/IM_Tutor/my_IM_tu ... Viewer.php

The image 17999.gif of 8 frames in this index the frames were split by using http://www.gifworks.com

Each of the frames is of the whole image of the cow, body and head.
http://www.scri8e.com/IM_Tutor/my_IM_tu ... Viewer.php

http://www.scri8e.com/IM_Tutor/my_IM_tu ... Viewer.php

[anthony]

First of all if I try to look at the example image... I get spanked!!!!!

Second. IM outputs the overlay frames of the image that is actually IN the animation
complete with any and all optimizations that the animation is using. Your luckly you only got the head. If the image also use transparency and/or LWZ optimization, it probably would have looked even worse!!!

If you want the actual frames as they should add -coalesce your IM command line (after reading in the animation) then use +adjoin to seperate the images.

For more information look at IM Examples, Animation Basics, Introduction
http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/#intro
then look at IM Examples, Animation Basics, Studying Animations
http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/#study

It has lots of technique not only for looking at the animation, but also different methods of looking at the low level disposals, frame delays, and lots of tecniques (examples need a re-write) for optimization.

IM does things this way as that gives users the most control over the animations, including modifying animations without lossing any existing optimizations that may be present, if that is what they want to do.

Read that IM examples section, as well as the next one 'Animation Handling'.

Thank you for the detailed report, it is rare for such a good and complete bug report.
I am very open to ideas and suggestions for better animation features, so much so I myself have been adding code to IM, and requesting better GIF file format handling, just for this purpose. I would welcome a fresh perspective.

[scri8e]

Thank you so much for detailed reply. I will devour the information on animation with great interest!

I have been using rotate under transform parameters 0.1%. Typing in the color name or hexcode in the background text area to create a solid background on the image whether it be multi-frames or still.

I'll try out the method you mentioned here. I look forward to reading what you have discovered about animation and IM.

It's unfortunate that many of the MSNTV/WebTV IM users have
opted to stick with working with
non-animated images because of the problems they have had.
I'm a die hard. I keep on tinkering with it till it bends to my will.


Opps! Sorry my htaccess script spanked you! Actually I have been recently surprised that it is finally working the way it was intended to after 3 years having it in place. I'll have to train myself to do my forum posting differently now.


The magick team was busy last night. I was told you responded but could not get in the forum or any of the magick.org files.
To read your post.

I'm so delighted that you are working with gif format and IM.
It's an area of many different paths to explore.

.

[scri8e]

Excellent reply Anthony!
I went =THUD= when I started reading the pages you posted above. Your theme for much of this is ..... STARS!

Why this reaction from me?
This is why.

http://www.scri8e.com/stars/index.html

Anthony in your examples you have what looks like php coding? Or? Are you using this code by inputting it in the command line? IOW's by inputting the raw code into the input text area on the input page before you would enter ImageMagick?

Can we do that with Webtv? Could I do that with my PC if not with Webtv? Or do I need to install
ImageMagick on my PC in order to do this?

Could we make a page in what format, to input into IM? .html .php or?

Could it possibly be .gif?

[scri8e]

I get it! This is coding you use in a PHP script in your file manager. Your server must have the correct Imagemagick modules installed and your server administrator must allow you as a user to write PHP scripts.

Ok,... now I'm on the same page!

I've worked with GD some. PHP, PL, & CGI. I am a script toddler tho.

[anthony]

Actually just about all the code you see is executed in the form of a BASH script.
That is the formating is for the Linux/Unix shell.

I quite often cut an paste only the command line to use. However most of the time the code is extracted from the HTML "<CODE EXECUTE ...>" blocks I use in the IM Example web pages, and feed directly into a 'sh' in the same directory at the web page.

That is the result you see on the web page is actually the direct result from the code shown.

Text output is also handled the same way, but extra tags in the <CODE> tag tell my 'generate_examples' to convert the output text into an image I can also directly display on the web page. Clicking on that text brings up the actual text file output!

I do it this way as it ensures what you see is what the code produced!


The code should be almost directly usable in PHP scripts. PHP is generally hosted from UNIX/Linux machines, and the 'exec()' call passes the given string to a shell from processing. The only cavat you need to look at is any extra quoteing and special characters that PHP also handles, and any extra 'Command PATH' required.

I have added a small section of PHP handling (and windows handling) in the 'FeedBack' section. It is faster to use the PHP specific API's if available, and avoids the need for too many temporary files. However you can read image output into PHP variables, which I believe I also demostrated.

Stars! I can see what you mean! However as the examples are regenerated ever few days, you will find that the example shown also has a different star pattern every few days. Have a look at the link near that example and you will see how I generated the random stars, as well as comets.

I would be very pleased if you like to play around with the scripts, or come up with other stary techniques, just send you results back to me.

I am very interested in locating the brighest pixel(s) in an image, so I can then turn it into a star(s). That should be especially great for an animation of a 3d highlighted shape in which the light moves.

Hmm I like your fire-fly animations, though they have a distinct 'gap' where the animation loops.

Sorry don't know anything about WebTV, or even what it is exactly, though I have heard it used before.

Here is a image I took with my digitial camera using 'night scenery' (long exposure) and a stand...
http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/saves ... _stars.jpg
This is the raw photo, and was hoping to play around with it a bit for IM Examples,
but you are welcome to do so.

[scri8e]

The elusive glowing pixel of bright sparkling white. I know of what you speak. I will offer what I have discovered in my travels. I don't have near the knowledge you have in graphics. I'm just hopelessly addicted. The closest hex code I have found is #F0FFFF which is the color name azure.


So far as glowing whites in still images. This penguin paradise image is the type of white I am always looking for.


So you don't get spanked. Go to this page and scroll towards the bottom to:

http://www.scri8e.com/stars/moonz/3JPGs2/index.php

The white snow scene named.
penguinparidise.jpg


That snow/ice just glows doesn't it.

Some hexcodes I grabbed from this image:

#EAEDFC #BDEFFF #CCD3FD #BFE0FF #FBFEFF

I also think that gradients will add to and intensify the glow effect.

....IMO and this is all this is....

I believe the glow in glowing white that you and I are after. Is produced by the way and the angle of how lightrays hit the pixel. Both the angle of the light and the angle of the pixels first flat side.

After all without light there is no color.

I assume (I loathe assuming)
that pixels are either square or round?

Perhaps the key is in the pixel it's self? To have pixels that are multi-sided / faceted cut like a diamond is?

I would look at the way light is reflected/refracted in programs like lightray or lightwave.
I also believe that one of the keys is to have clear pixels layered around the blue white core pixel. To me a blue white is more beautiful than a yellow white. I like blue white diamonds over yellow diamonds anytime.

Re: The fireflies animation and the pause on the loop. Ah yes Yves Piguet GifBuilder the first few versions had some quirks as I am sure you are aware. I have often wondered if this animation program built for Macs. Had trouble converting for windows machines? Along with the other challenges in the early days.


The two Animation Artists that hooked me on animation, held me spell bound are. Number 1 always! Steve Bennett of Karma Storm. With your love of dragons you are probably familiar with his work.

Dragons in Moonlight is a fav animation of mine.

Steve is rather dark in his writings. I enjoy reading him. He does stir your thoughts.

Karma Storm is no longer up. Here is a taste of his website preserved with his permission by someone named Gary.

http://members.shaw.ca/garryww/steve_bennett.htm


Bill Graham is the other. His site was called Tongue Monsters. Imagination powered in a twisted way. His site is also no longer on the web. The Internet Archive can be very helpful for researching.


Bill Graham's animations are a bit twisted. Animation was a hobby for him. He went on to be a famous concert promoter.

One of his most referred to animations is the finger cow.

http://web.archive.org/web/200006081922 ... cowblk.gif


Other categories were, roboguys, aerobabes, & snoutgrubs.


http://web.archive.org/web/200006182238 ... youblk.gif


http://web.archive.org/web/200107052331 ... be1blk.gif


http://web.archive.org/web/200008271319 ... ingblk.gif

[anthony]

My word, yes that scene really does have a glow about it.

I never found this page in my travels of the web site, very good.

It isn't so much as finding a 'glowing color' that is a problem, but finding the brightest pixel
(or center of a bright highlight) in such a way that I can then apply the 'star generator' algorithm to it.
http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/advanced/#stars
That geneator can create not only 6 ray, but 4, or 8 ray stars, and with a little tweek could make the alturnate rays in an 8 ray star dimmer, or a slight color shift doe a even better effect.

That is I have a shape, or image that has a highlight in it. I want to reduce that image to all black except for the center of that bright highlight. That image can then be 'starred' and overlayed back onto the original image. Instant star spot at the right location.

If the image is part of a animated sequence involving a moving light source, then the 'star' position will move from image to image, add a little rotation each time. You animation will then have a star 'rolling' along with the highlight in the image

The problem is I have not figured out a good automatic way to find the highlight points.

The key to a glow is I believe to have dimmer colors around it, so that the sudden brightness is interpreted by our eyes as a 'glow'.

I think the fireflies will need a bit of programming to geneate closed mathematical loops of different sizes, shapes and styles. The 'flys' could then return to the start point smoothly so as to repeat without a sudden 'jump' in position as the animation loops.

In the mean time I have arranged a -reverse image sequence (or stack) operator that takes the current image sequence and reverses it. Showed be avaliable in a couple of days.

The function was already present in the Magick Core libary, just not available externally. This means you can take any animation, and 'double' the number of frames to create a 'reverse' to return it to the start.

A bit like what was added to
http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/#color_opt
just recentally. Though the example currently used a "clone 4,3,2,1" to do the reversal of the animation.

PS: I liked Steve Bennett's raytraced animation. Heart of Stone is particualrly nice. Through the sudden change in eye movement in Karma Storm's 'Mask' is also good, nice use of long delays, and small changes.

I suggest you keep an eye on the Animation/Video pages in IM Examples, I have been updating them, especially Optiomzation. However currently I found a bug in my IM optimization code, It is rarely triggered, so I am not suprised it has not been reported.

PPS: your blinky text was probably jumping because of sub-frame optimization, which this discussion was originally about. Make sure you -coalesce an animation BEFORE making a major change. See the first few examples in IM Examples, Animation Handling. It also depends on your IM version.

[scri8ePC]

Examples and most of the text in this post located here.

This is a Spank Free Zone!
http://www.scri8e.com/IM_Tutor/my_IM_tu ... Viewer.php

I tried the coalesce method by using the Arbor Magic Studio Interface
http://studio.webbyland.com/MagickStudi ... Studio.cgi
Not by using the command line method. I could not find the 'adjoin' function in the studio.
Am I missing it? Or is not part of the Magic Studio Interface at this time?
So I used the "Append" tiling left to right. That isn't right either. I think that the coalesce in the Magic Studio Interface in not functioning or does not function the way it does in a command line. Examples in the above index of both.

Why? Why did I not use the command Line? Because the Magic Studio Interface is what all MSNTV / WebTV users can use. I think I posted this in the right forum? If I didn't my appologies. Many MSNTV/WebTV users do not have the ability to write scripts.
I do have that ability tho. I am on the dedicated Arbor server. We have installed the most updated ImageMagick Modules available I believe?

MSNTV/WebTV users are very dedicated to ImageMagick. This is the only program that our
ancient browser can use. Only gifworks I believe currently can we use besides IM. We use to be able to use MyImager. That has been upgraded beyond the webtv browsers ability.

I use both my Webtv plus and my PC. In this post I'm using my PC. I just registered today with a PC after my user name.

I understand what you are after. With the "Brightest pixel" with the highlighting effects.
In my Adobe PhotoShop CS2 program when I am playing with the alien skins eyecandy filters, Nature, Impact, and one other who's title escapes me at the moment. Using the "glass" filter as one example. You can set the light reflection angle and several other parameters. Length color and random also.

I also worked with a umm. I guess it's call a math algorithm? It does the random changing of the stars layout with each refresh. Uses dingbats for the star shapes. Looks like a swf when a friend showed it to me. It's IE browser view-able only tho. Can't see a thing with firefox. Had to open it with IE in order to see it.

Do you Imagemagick wizards use Macs only? Or a little of this and that?
Just curious.

[scri8ePC]

I couldn't enter your URL into arbor ImageMagick interface.
The studio put up stop signs and said it didn't exist!

~ Blink Blink ~ Funny I could see it!
Guess it is too kb heavy to be allowed into the studio or maybe it's the ~ in the url?
I haven't seen the ~ causing problems in long while. I haven't used a tripod hosted image
in ages either. Tripod has ~ in their urls also.

http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/saves ... _stars.jpg

[anthony]

Other alturnatives to +adjoin is. Add a %03d into the output filename, or frame then append the images. See the "gif_anim_montage" script
http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/#montage

Many MSNTV/WebTV users do not have the ability to write scripts.

Now that is a major drawback. Prehaps you need to download your own command line version Yes I know this forum is for MagickStudio, but if you getting that advanced, maybe it is time.

I wouldn't like to rely on a font for stars. as it would be difficult to exactly position the image.
However the Dingbats stars are rather nice. Maybe a 'create a random star animation' script using dingbat fonts would be a interesting excerise (random star selection, rotation, with some limited point size changes).

Macs!!! Arrgghh... I use Fedora 6 Linux on a dual processor PC at work, and Fedora 5 linux on a Dell Laptop at home! my normal 'job' is as a UNIX Expert, and Senious systems administrator. I don't like Macs, and I don't like Windows. I can use them, but I don't like them.

Firefox can use SWF, just need a plug-in installed.

[anthony]

I couldn't enter your URL into arbor ImageMagick interface.
The studio put up stop signs and said it didn't exist!
http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/saves ... _stars.jpg

Hmmm checked it is present.

Hmmm Even the IM host in the USA could see it...

Code: Select all

wget http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/saves/southern_stars.jpg

Maybe Arbor doesn't like it. It is a large 2304x1728 JPEG raw digital camera photo after all. I wanted to see if I could actually photograph stars with a simple modern camera, and you can, but the photo needs 'binning' (which reduces the image size to 1/2 or 1/3) and prehaps other some noise reduction (-adaptive-blur or -despeckle) and othe renhancment. I especially wanted to see if colors of the actual star can be enhanced.

As it is the 8 second exposure (from the EXIF header) gives the stars a 2 to 3 pixel streak, caused by earths rotation. That however is the longest exposure posible on my camera (shame star streaks make good photos ).

[anthony]

prehaps we could go to a new forum subject?

"It's full of stars!" -- 2001 A Space Odyssey ?

[scri8e]

prehaps we could go to a new forum subject?

"It's full of stars!" -- 2001 A Space Odyssey ?

I'm all for it! Let's get star struck, starry eyed, comet tailed!


I recently picked up a cannon PowerShot A540 digital camera. Nothing high tech. I love the darn thing tho. Talk about settings!
There are 3 manuals that came with it. About all I have done is point and click, upload pics and delete to free memory. Had it about a month. It will take movies also.

Then there is the other toy. A flat bed scanner. .. LOL@me ....
Yap Yap Yap ...
.

[anthony]

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